Howard to Portland?
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  1. diablo2689
    diablo2689
    Posts: 122

    Posted 02/26/2012 10:43 AM

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=82p8zne 
    I don't know if the link will work but i was looking at the great trade machine of espn, and figured this might work to bring Dwight Howard here to portland. My questions are, is it too much? Would it be worth it to have the best front court in the NBA? and do i really want Hedo as a blazer after all the FA crap/and how bad he is every where other than orlando....?
    TRADE:
    Howard and Hedo <for> Camby, Wallace, and Matthews
    I think this trade would be nice because 2 current all stars on a team is never a bad thing.
    I am a fan of
  1. Fallen_Deity
    Fallen_Deity
    Posts: 440

    Posted 02/26/2012 4:18 PM

    Please just stop with the trade machine.... The salaries work but Orlando is not giving up Howard and Turkoglu for that AND we have no insurance he will stay.  This is not going to happen face reality.
    I am a fan of competing til the final buzzer!!!!!!!!!!
  1. The Unholy
    The Unholy
    Posts: 352

    Posted 02/26/2012 11:31 PM

    if the blazers made that trade they would be the oralando magic
    I am a fan of high octane motion offense
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 02/27/2012 12:41 AM

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

    Videogamers talk about trades like this, not fans.

    Neither Dwight Howard nor Hedo Turkoglu will ever play for the Blazers. Multiple All-Stars are NOT required to win a championship. You just need a team that works well and works hard from top to bottom.

    Less trade talk, more basketball talk please.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. Austin Martin
    Austin Martin
    Posts: 92

    Posted 02/27/2012 2:50 PM

    Im stuck somewhere between the two sides of this battle. No, this wouldnt work because Howard doesnt want to be in a small town, and it would be a waste to essentially get just Hedo out of the trade (whom also if we can remember picked toronto over portland just a few years ago!)

    However i think fans can and should create videogame-esque trades for the fun of it. I am a die-hard, but often like looking at the extreme possibiblities. Do i know that most would not or could not work out due to personalities and things beyond money? Yes. Do i expect things like this to happen? No. But is it fun to play around and see what could be? Yeah, and as a fan that is what you do. You get excited about your team. diablo is excited, he is a fan!!!

    Finally, on the point of the ability to win a title without stars, while my heart wants to agree with you blazer247, who was the last team to do this? the 03-04 pistons? Maybe, but they had billups and wallace. Otherwise, who else?
    I am a fan of
  1. EthanMoney
    EthanMoney
    Posts: 301

    Posted 02/29/2012 5:04 AM

    Just a reminder it doesn't matter if Orlando gives him up or not. Next year hes a free agent.
    I am a fan of
  1. diablo2689
    diablo2689
    Posts: 122

    Posted 02/29/2012 9:41 AM

    lol damn.. yaa i was just throwing a crazy trade out there. I know it would be sweet to get another great player on our team, but personally I love this team too. I hate hedo!! lol but i would hate him less if he put up big points for our team. This trade will honestly not work, but it is a hypothetical senario to bring the best center in the league to portland. Go ahead and hate, but i love seeing all the "unrealistic" trades, that have a sliver of a possibility of happening.
    I am a fan of
  1. DHawes22
    DHawes22
    Posts: 6488

    Posted 02/29/2012 11:14 AM

    I wouldn't trade for Howard at the deadline. No unrestricted free agent is worth only a month's production. Why not just try to sign him in the offseason? Lower risk, same reward.
    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 02/29/2012 12:35 PM

    Agreed about trades in general, the risk-reward is better in the offseason than now, so lets PLEASE talk less trades when we should be talking a whole lot more about OUR TEAM.

    If you really enjoy talking about unrealistic (and not even necessarily helpful) trades because you like the idea of celebrity and starpower, then that's your right and I can't stop you (obviously).

    I would argue that from a Blazer Fan perspective, though, talking about superhero trades is taking the absolute easiest (and laziest) way out in regards to discussions about your team. And even somewhat insulting to the guys who put on the Rip City colors and work hard not just for the team and the fans, but for themselves as professional athletes who deep down all have the desire to improve and push their personal game to the next level, instead of just being seen as game pieces being traded for a championship.

    Let's compare it to a non-sport team scenario; the desire to win by magically trading for superstars is similair to if you were in a combat situation, with a squad of trusted and trained fellow soldiers, against a similairly trained and equipped unit... and your idea of how to win is if you could just have RoboCop or Terminator on your team, or someone else with a huge array of superior laser-guided weapons and missile launchers that never miss and could almost win the battle single-handedly. THAT is what you are asking for and trying to talk about on a BLAZER forum. And yes, in videogames like Halo and such, just like in NBA2k12 or sports games, it does happen... by using cheats usually, or a draft system that is completely unrealistic and only based on boxscore totals.

    But REAL team scenarios, whether they be sports or combat or whatever, require the players to rely not on being obvious favorites due to their weaponry or unfair advantages, but to work hard as a TEAM and overcome the odds and win with their TEAMWORK and consistent play (hey look, right there are a few things we could be spending our time discussing and actually try to figure out what our team needs to do to win).

    So again, if what you want to do is talk about unrealistic scenarios that will almost NEVER come to fruition or help our team in any significant way... go right ahead. Dream away about how easy we'd have it if it was all handed to us. Why don't we just make a bunch of posts about how awesome we'd be if Oden and Roy never needed surgeries? OR if you REALLLLY need to talk about trades, then let's try (briefly) discussing a realistic idea that could come up somewhere down the line (like in the offseason), something that we could all get excited about or at least allow ourselves to hope for if the situation lined itself up right over many unforeseen and unpredictable variables.

    I would rather talk about Ray Felton, Nolan Smith, Jamal Crawford, Wesley Mathews, Elliot Williams, Nic Batum, Gerald Wallace, LaMarcus Aldridge, Craig Smith, Luke Babbitt, Kurt Thomas, Greg Oden, Marcus Camby, and Joel Przybilla, and Nate McMillan. That is OUR team. Portland's team. The TrailBlazers. And we're Blazer Fans.

    So PLEASE, I'm not saying you can't dream about a super-team (let me say again, that is EXACTLY why we have videogames that strive to give us options close to reality but a little more fun, and I LOVE videogames). But it's really annoying that the majority of posts on the BLAZER forum are becoming unrealistic trade-machine links. That has very very very little to do with the Blazers!!!

    PLEASE, PLEASE, let's try and talk more about what we're all here about... the Portland TrailBlazers of 2011-2012.

    We don't say "Go All-Stars!" or "NBA, Baby!", we say...

    GOOOOO BLAZERS!!! BLAZE THOSE NUGGETS TONIGHT!!! WIN IN THE MILE HIGH CITY!!! THIS IS RIP CITY, BABY!!!
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. diablo2689
    diablo2689
    Posts: 122

    Posted 03/01/2012 8:03 AM

    You feel better now? Alright punk, first off I am a huge fan of the Blazers! Even though i hope that hard work, determination, and a botherhood of Blazers will make us NBA Champs, realistically if are great players don't preform well enough to get us to the next level.. we start talking trade talks. The fact that you are getting so worked up about trade talks is stupid! If you aren't intrested in this type of post, i have an idea for you.. DON'T LOOK AT THEM! Wow who knew it was that easy!? OO and don't bring up combat stuff if you're not over here in the sand box. Cuz honestly if i could choose between all my friends going out and fighting the war and a robocop that kills everything.. i would pick the robocop, and send my friends home. I have a Wallace jersey, i love every player on the team (except babbit, he sucks), i went to as many games as i could when i was home, and try to watch every game I can online. I am a Rip City fan, and you can talk about trades and still love the players cuz if you haven't noticed, trades happen every season!! our team changes every season!! If we can pick up a Howard, a Rondo, a Nash, or another all star it is fun to talk about! Doesn't mean it will happen, or i hate the players on our team. I want the team to be the best it possibly can be! SO instead of telling me more about how "talking" about trades is stupid, you should go to a bar and talk with your buddies (if you have them) about your "blazer talk" that is more important.  
    I am a fan of
  1. commontongue
    commontongue
    Posts: 1864

    Posted 03/01/2012 3:33 PM

    Ooo Rahhh !! Semper Fi.
    I am a fan of our new roster playing with and for eachother.
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 03/01/2012 5:46 PM

    Ok diablo, where to start...

    "feel better now?" no actually, i'd feel better when the forum isn't overrun with unrealistic trade posts and when we can go back to discussing our team like it's a TEAM instead of just a number sheet...

    "Alright punk, first off I am a huge fan of the Blazers" glad to hear it, I never said you weren't! In fact what I said was that we all had the right to feel how we want and I can't stop any of you. Also, I NEVER resorted to name calling with anyone I disagreed with. Whether it's just saying "punk" or something alot worse, there's no need to start that and I'd appreciate you show me the same respect I afford you. And in regards to your "feel better now" comment, I'd say that even 2 sentences in to your post, you're obviously on more of an emotional rant than I was; All I did was say you're welcome to feel how you feel, but it bothers me that so many of you are so quick to jump to the easiest way of looking for an answer (trades halfway through a shortened season). Then I supported my argument (what I thought forum posts were for usually) and called for Blazer support, but again, never tried to make any personal attacks, big or small, against ANYONE else on the forum.

    "though i hope that hard work, determination, and a b(r?)otherhood of Blazers will make us NBA Champs, realistically if are(our?) great players don't preform(perform?) well enough to get us to the next level.. we start talking trade talks." I completely agree! The hope is to have as many quality players as possible, and if some aren't cutting it, then you can sometimes fix the situation with a trade. But what I DISAGREE with is:
     a)talking about that at this point in this season,
     b)having it be the go-to solution when a player underperforms even for less than a month, and
     c)talking about completely unrealistic scenarios! If we want to talk Nash, then I'll be quiet because it's somewhat possible whether I like it or not, but HOWARD IS NOT COMING TO PORTLAND. Move on to something productive PLEASE.

    "If you aren't int(e?)rested in this type of post, i have an idea for you.. DON'T LOOK AT THEM!" Great idea, I'd love to do that! Except that's nearly impossible when almost every other post on any given day is about trade-machine. It's one thing in a regular season, when there are larger gaps and people want to take a moment and dream, but on a GAME DAY or the day after a game even, there are so many more things more relevant to Blazer Basketball than talking about Dwight Howard or Deron Williams (this applies even more in the short season!).

    Again, wish away if you want to, but does it have to take over an entire forum that used to be so good about detailed and analytical discussions? These boards used to be covered with posts about actual BASKETBALL and the playing of it, instead of just the business surrounding it...

    "OO and don't bring up combat stuff if you're not over here in the sand box. Cuz honestly if i could choose between all my friends going out and fighting the war and a robocop that kills everything.. i would pick the robocop, and send my friends home." Again, you take up this macho attitude. Same as not sinking to namecalling... don't try and talk down to me from your pedestal because of our different individual choices. The fact that I'm not over there currently has nothing at all to do with my knowledge of the subject (basketball or combat), and it certainly doesn't make you the alpha-omega authority on combat situations. Especially on a forum like this, we all have equal value to our opinions. Yours is worth no more (or less) than mine. So please, don't hold our service record over our heads, it's not pretty. Cheers to those who have served, and those who still do. Now put it away and move on.
    And your whole thing about sending the friends home... thank you for proving my point! OBVIOUSLY, we would ALL choose to save human lives and not endanger those we love, but you are very firsthand proof of what I was saying; hoping for RoboCop (or a superstar trade) is UNREALISTIC, and in the real world, teams (combat or sport) need to learn to handle their problems another way; usually, by focusing and honing skills, and beating the odds to win together.

    Maybe the best solution is if these forums, like so many others, get a little more organized. If you look at other team's message boards, they're often categorized under different types of discussion. I don't think it would be that difficult to setup individual pages for different types of posts like "Trades", "Ball/Gameplay", "GameDay", "Other Teams" "PostGame/Coaching" etc etc... not trying to tell you guys not to throw your trade wishes out there, but I know I'm not alone when I say that some of us would rather talk real Basketball.
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
  1. diablo2689
    diablo2689
    Posts: 122

    Posted 03/02/2012 8:23 AM

    Wow.. I knew I wrote that message quickly, but I had no clue how many typos i had. DAMN lol

    Honestly, yesterday was a long and stressful day. Then when I come back and see that an individual has wrote a "novel" about how much me posting trade talks bugged him/her, it really annoyed me. It is easy to avoid the "trade talk" posts/click off of them once you find them. You can read the topic of the post.. There is no need to break down every part of my message and lecture me about the proper way to post.

    I got emotional about it because it is like you are trying to tell me what is right and wrong. Hence, the reason I tried to put my opinion above yours. The truth is like you said, "we all have the right to feel how we want", and our opinions shouldn't be better than one another's. So, you continue to post your way, and i will post my way. I will be happy to hop in on the other discussions about game play, players, coaching, late game decision making, the league, ect. All i ask is in the meantime, don't be sooo critical about posts!
    I am a fan of
  1. Blazer247
    Blazer247
    Posts: 591

    Posted 03/02/2012 11:47 AM

    Haha yeah typos definitely happen more when you're rushed! I didn't try to focus on it, but it does make things a little harder to read and give credit to :P

    I hear ya about having a stressful day, but honestly the length of my post shouldn't be somethin you let bug you... I write long and detailed posts because it's a way for me to cover my bases, so that when discussions like this open up, I can reference what I said earlier and not be accused of changing opinions or being inconsistent. And for the record, I didn't write my post in response to your post at all... honestly, it was Austin's post (2 above yours) that I had seen defending the desire to talk about unrealistic trades, and was responding to his post and DHawes' post about trades not having any real value til the offseason.

    When it comes to avoiding trade talks, I agree that just leaving them alone is easy. In fact, that's what I've done with the posts about Nash, because again, trading for Nash is in the actual realm of possibility. Trade talks for people like Howard, however, are not. He will NOT come to Portland, and while I understand that there are those out there who just want to dream and wish for a superteam, let me restate my exact complaint once more:
    This Blazer forum, that used to be so full of different discussions, covering everything across the board of NBA, is now being DROWNED in trade talks, at a time when making a trade has literally the least value of any time we could be looking at one (in a regular season, yes, the trade deadline can be key to acquiring a good player, but in the short season, the most likely thing we'd be doing is securing a player that MIGHT help us, for only a few months!!! THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!!!)
    So, my point is that while I CAN avoid the posts about "trade for Nash", I find it a little excessive that I currently would have to avoid more than half the posts on the forum to avoid a subject line involving trades (below this box right now are 7 subjects for recent posts, the only one that does not involve trade talks is "Create A Caption")...
    And beyond that, even in other posts that are NOT about trades, we can be having great discussions about team fundamentals and then along comes one of you guys sayin "we should just trade x for x and we'd be winning" and then down goes the conversation, because more trade-talkers show up to chime in!!! So yeah, I'll have no problem avoiding trade talks as soon as trade-talkers stop posting on EVERY thread they see...

    In fact, wouldn't that be more focused and helpful to discussions if more of the trade ideas were all posted on the same thread (or at least a folder of similair threads), instead of a dozen different ones? That would let people comment on trade ideas in one place, instead of responding to several posts AND opening up a new post for your own similair trade-machine link... just sayin, organizing the posts is a Win-Win for everyone :)

    Please understand, I'm not saying you guys can't talk about your dream trades. But I personally don't see it as any part of constructive basketball discussion (see the whole thing about handling combat vs sports), and I miss the days when you could hop on this forum and read some really interesting, detailed posts about Blazer Basketball. I know that some of the old-school posters just don't participate as much anymore (Herr, Kassandra, everyone else, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?!?), partly due to the trends of discussions, and probably also partly due to the fact that they go and write blogs now instead. But honestly, I really do believe that the whole forum will be more interesting and entertaining and will involve a MUCH larger number of posters if it's not being overrun by trade threads!

    It does seem like maybe the best solution is to organize the forum overall, and like other team's sites we can have a section for people that want to talk trades, a section for people that want to complain about coaching or slumps, and a section for people interested in talking basketball.

    I know it's not hard to organize a forum in this way, so can I ask if anyone out there sees it as a problem? What would be some negative aspects of organizing the forum and putting trade posts all in one place? It wouldn't hurt fans that want to discuss trades, in fact it would make things easier for them to find posts and keep from being repetitive. And it certainly would make fans like me feel a lot more welcome to have our discussions without worrying that it will just devolve into another trade post. Who does the website maintenance? Can we look at this as a possibility please?
    I am a fan of BLAZER BASKETBALL. Not drafts, not business, not trades, not David Stern. Just BLAZER BASKETBALL.
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