Consider what you're doing before trading Outlaw
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  1. wcd313
    wcd313
    Posts: 4

    Posted 07/10/2009 9:26 PM

    During this whole offseason, any trade rumors involving the Blazers have almost always included Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Steve Blake is someone we can get rid of because even though he's a decent point guard, we need to upgrade at that position to get farther in the playoffs. Travis Outlaw however, we should keep him around another year. After he had a disappointing series against Houston, almost everybody jumped on the Trade Travis Outlaw bandwagon. We were all frustrated with him, but you gotta cut him some slack. The most high stakes thing he played in before that was the Mississippi State Basketball Playoffs. He was nervous and it got the better of him. If we get rid of him, we will only have Martell Webster and Nicolas Batum at small forward. No one knows how Webster will be next year since we haven't seen him play since the 07-08 season. And Batum is still developing. We still need Travis, at least for one more year.
  1. RipCityRevival
    RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 07/10/2009 9:39 PM

    Look, it isn't Travis, he is just the weakest of our Small Forwards and we have a log jam there. It's what's best for Travis too. Dude, get over the Jermaine O'Neal/Drazen Petrovic trip. It happens, you trade guys and sometimes they turn into stars, sometimes they fade into oblivion. It's the way of the game.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. Andrew
    Andrew
    Posts: 58

    Posted 07/11/2009 9:03 AM

    i gotta agree. Theres always that 50/50 chance that you trade away a guy that turns into a all star and/or mvp type player. Bottom line is, as a team you got to decide how long your gonna keep a guy and wait for him to become to the player he could or couldnt be. You end up shooting yourself if the foot to because while there still might be some mystery to travis and maybe we havent seen all he has to offer, his value will drop if he never steps his game up and then we get nothing for him. Gotta trade someone while the value is high, in turn, you might recieve some player from a team that could turn into your mvp or all star. Side note, i just woke up and this rant made sense to me, but im sorry if it doesnt to you haha.
    I am a fan of winning a championship and never hearing the words jailblazers or bowie again.
  1. egstexan01
    egstexan01
    Posts: 48

    Posted 07/11/2009 12:28 PM

    Yea, I see the points on the Outlaw situation from you guys. Of course, I've always been a backer of Outlaw and I tend to agree to keeping him around being that he was the first or second best option off of the 2nd best bench in the NBA(if I'm not mistaken). I don't particularly like how a single subpar playoff series sends certain players in oblivion in the minds of fans and others alike.  I wouldn't necessarily call Outlaw a weak link on the team, just probably one that is most tradeable but that doesn't mean that he deserves to be traded, regardless of many of the fans turning their backs on him.
    I am a fan of the beautiful cohesiveness of my blazers, reminding me of why I've loved this franchise for much of my young life despite being a texan....
  1. wcd313
    wcd313
    Posts: 4

    Posted 07/11/2009 3:03 PM

    I understand what you guys are saying, but what I'm saying is that we should keep Outlaw another year as security just incase Webster isn't completely ready. Then all we would have is Nicolas Batum. I'm not bashing him or anything i'm just saying we need more than him at small forward for right now. I'm not concerned with Outlaw becoming a star after leaving the Blazers i'm just saying for this season it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him.
  1. wcd313
    wcd313
    Posts: 4

    Posted 07/11/2009 3:03 PM

    I understand what you guys are saying, but what I'm saying is that we should keep Outlaw another year as security just incase Webster isn't completely ready. Then all we would have is Nicolas Batum. I'm not bashing him or anything i'm just saying we need more than him at small forward for right now. I'm not concerned with Outlaw becoming a star after leaving the Blazers i'm just saying for this season it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him.
  1. kvin2
    kvin2
    Posts: 46

    Posted 07/12/2009 3:01 AM

    Here's the thing about Outlaw: it wasn't just the Houston. He has not played defense HIS ENTIRE CAREER. He has not rebounded HIS ENTIRE CAREER. He has had a low basketball IQ HIS ENTIRE CAREER. Has he improved every season except last season, yes. But here's why we need to trade him now: First, his EXTREMELY low basketball IQ leads to a very poor shot selection. Especially in crunch time when he thinks he should have the ball and takes shots he shouldn't. There are only five players in the NBA currently that have a "There's no effing way we're losing this game mode" AND CAN DELIVER: Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade, Paul Pierce, and Brandon Roy. That's it. That's the whole list. Al Jefferson might get there, KG used to have it, Derrick Rose might get there, Dwight Howard might get there, Tim Duncan never had it, A'mare Stodomire might get there, Nash never had it, Kidd kinda sorta had it at one point. But right now, there's only five. And we have one of them on our team. WE DONT NEED A GUY NOT NAMED BRANDON ROY TO 'NEED" OR "THINK HE SHOULD HAVE THE BALL" IN CRUNCH TIME. Second, Outlaw has value right now, AND his contract is up this season. Next year is of course "The Summer of 2010", with all of the biggest names of that 2003 draft hitting free agency (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, et. al.). However, with the way the (LOUSEY) free agent market went this year, EVERYBODY'S getting paid. So some team who is desperate of a decent 6th man/swingman off the bench who can play and make spot starts at both forward positions is going to overpay Outlaw somewhere along the lines of 4 years, $22-36 million depending on the team. I believe Outlaw is an unrestricted FA after this year (I could be wrong, but if he isn't it doesn't change the point much anyways), and so it is best for us to get something for him now than nothing for him a year from now. Unless the team in question is strapped for cash (unlikely if they're overpaying for a SF/PF who plays no D, doesn't rebound, and isn't tough) and they have to do a sign-and-trade with us to acquire him, then we get left with nothing for the SIX YEARS we spent developing this guy. Yes, there is the Jermaine O'Neal fear, but can we all agree this coaching staff/development staff/front office is VASTLY superior to the group that traded away O'Neal? I feel like we can trust KP to get some value in return for Outlaw. Third, and most pressing, HE HAS NO SPOT IN OUR ROTATION. KP and Coach McMillan view Outlaw as more of a PF than a SF now, which is good, because we already have three guys who are going to get regular minutes at the three next year (Batum, Webster, Rudy). However, if the Jazz do not match our offer to Paul Millsap, then we have no need for Outlaw. Millsap does everything Outlaw doesn't (namely: rebound, play defense, block shots, play defense, rebound, play defense), and does the only thing Outlaw does well (score) better (12.8 vs. 13.5 PPG). Plus, he brings toughness to the table, something Outlaw does not. Plus, Pendergraph and Cunningham are "probably" going to make the roster, and they will be able to provide in limited minutes what Outlaw can't: toughness and rebounding, and a little scoring, and for much cheaper than Outlaw. So, is he a good, solid bench player? Absolutely. Does he have more upside? Of course. Do his teammates and his coach like him? Yes. But is it the right move to trade him now to improve our team because he does not fit with our team anymore? Unquestionably. Sometimes you have to trade guys you like to get better.
    I am a fan of B-Roy changing EVERYTHING.
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 07/12/2009 5:36 AM

    kvin2 just said that Timmy-D never had the ability to DELIVER during crunch time in big games. Dude, I dunno 'bout anyone else in here, but you don't help your team win 4 NBA championships by DELIVERING PIZZA's. I quit reading your grumpy yap-fest after you called out Duncan. Maybe kvin2 never watched any of the 19 straight times the Blazers lost to Tim Duncan's poor ability to close games out?
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. wcd313
    wcd313
    Posts: 4

    Posted 07/12/2009 11:51 AM

    kvin2 I guess understand what you're saying value wise with Outlaw, but to say he hasn't made progress is ridiculous. He does have a VERY low basketball IQ but he's still the most clutch on our team other than Brandon Roy. It might be shocking for some people to realize this but it's completely true. Everybody has bad games, takes bad shots, and makes a bad decision.
  1. kvin2
    kvin2
    Posts: 46

    Posted 07/12/2009 3:24 PM

    A few things: First, it wasn't a grumpy yap-fest. The all caps are merely for emphasis, because the site doesn't let you put things in italics, underline them, or make them bold. I'm neither yelling nor grumpy, just trying to draw attention to important words or phrases. Second, you obviously misunderstood what I meant about Duncan. He can ABSOLUTELY can deliver in big games. He's one of the top 2 power forwards of all time. You don't just accidentally win 4 championships. I personally love Duncan, I think he's a great guy and an unbelievable basketball player. However, his impact to a game is slightly different than what I'm describing. Roy, Kobe, Pierce, LeBron, and Wade all have a certain mode they can get in where they WILL NOT let their team lose. It just will not happen. They go into it sometime in the fourth quarter, it's like a 6th gear or something. Duncan's contributions don't happen like that. If his team needs a win (especially in the playoffs) he is capable of going out and putting up a 35-15 or 40-20 game and just dominating the whole game. The difference is he doesn't switch into this 6th gear or whatever in the middle of the 4th quarter, he just dominates whole games. And it's probably my fault you didn't understand because I didn't explain it. Third, I wcd313, you should read my post (admittedly easier if my paragraphs hadn't been destroyed). I said once that Outlaw has improved every season (except 07-08 was a better season for him than last), and that I believe he is a good, solid bench player with a lot more upside. It remains to be seen if we actually get Millsap or not, but if we do, then we need to trade him. Read my second and third points. We need to trade him because he has value despite his shortcomings and because we have no place for him anymore.
    I am a fan of B-Roy changing EVERYTHING.
  1. Jackson
    Jackson
    Posts: 12

    Posted 07/12/2009 7:28 PM

    I agree... I've always backed up Travis. I love him as a guy and he's been from what I can tell a good teammate... But I think sometimes we need to look past that to become a better team.  He would probably like to play somewhere else where he can get more of a chance... He has potential to be a very good player but the Blazers don't have the space on their team to find out if he will become that.  I love Travis and hope the best for him.
  1. RipCityRevival
    RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 07/12/2009 10:48 PM

    Thank you, more logic and less emotion. Good to finally hear. Hasn't America learned it's lesson about this? Emotion is what got Bush elected to a second term. Logic is what has kept Bush3 out of the office. It works in basketball too. Outlaw is clutch, I will give him that. In the last 8 minutes of a game, he is a pretty good guy to go to. Unfortunately for the Blazers, he disappears for the first 40 minutes. Portland needs a steady, consistent hand coming off that bench.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. egstexan01
    egstexan01
    Posts: 48

    Posted 07/13/2009 12:05 AM

    Ok, I can agree to the points being made, specifically by kvin about Travis that is leaning me more toward trading him. I just really hope that we get equal or potentially greater value out of trading him because regardless of what anyone thinks of him he is a very solid, good player that will make very good contributions to any team that acquires him.......be careful of what you wish for
    I am a fan of the beautiful cohesiveness of my blazers, reminding me of why I've loved this franchise for much of my young life despite being a texan....
  1. octivator
    octivator
    Posts: 11

    Posted 07/13/2009 12:22 AM

    kvin2:  what exactly do you mean by "the site doesn't let you put things in italics, underline them, or make them bold"?

    are you using a browser from the 90s?
  1. Cheryl.Fraser
    Cheryl.Fraser
    Posts: 27

    Posted 07/13/2009 2:02 AM

    I'm sorry I can help but laugh and make a comment about not being able to change the text type. I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like right there in your face. Haha. Ok, that was it. :)
    I am a fan of the love for our Trail Blazers :)
  1. SithLord13
    SithLord13
    Posts: 56

    Posted 07/13/2009 7:20 AM

    Travis is a good clutch player at times but not even close to consistent. I think we have waited enough for him to get better but seems to have peaked. Or at least can't get any better in Nate's system. As long as we get a good value in return he should be traded this offseason. I wouldn't mind bringing in a solid starter (PG being the highest priority) and using Outlaw in the package.
    I am a fan of the Rip City, where amazing will happen in 2012
  1. blazerboy88
    blazerboy88
    Posts: 6

    Posted 07/13/2009 4:15 PM

    Travis Outlaw needs to be traded its not that he got nervous its that he is inconsistent
    and really Martell and Batum are the only ones we need. I gurantee Martell will come out with vengeance this year and be a positive contributor and Batum is a very good person 2 have since he locked in the starting job last yr. I believe Out law is no longer good for us.
    I am a fan of 50 win seasons
  1. wcd313
    wcd313
    Posts: 4

    Posted 07/14/2009 10:57 AM

    Now that everyone's talking about inconsistency, what about Martell Webster's inconsistency?? If you're gonna call Travis inconsistent you have to think of Martell's inconsistency too. He is the definition of a streaky shooter and the only reason why I think he's still here after 4 seasons is because of his personal ties to Nate McMillan before coming to Portland. If someone can convince me that he's improved and is fully healthy I'll agree 100% that Travis should be traded. I'm just not so sure Martell is ready to go.
  1. Posted 07/15/2009 2:37 AM

    I like Millsap but he plays no D him Z Bo, Boozer, Staudamire, and David Lee are all famous for being big men with no desire to play D they score and occasionally rebound thats all
  1. RipCityRevival
    RipCityRevival
    Posts: 684

    Posted 07/15/2009 9:55 AM

    Martell inconsistent? Really? Where did that come from? The thing with Martel is, if his shot isn't falling he attacks the rim, he rebounds, he plays defense, all things Travis doesn't do whether his shot is falling or not. That is the difference, it has NOTHING to do with his relationship with Nate. Make sure you grade a player as a whole rather than a single dimension. As far as his shot goes, he has done nothing BUT work on his shot the last year because he couldn't exercise a whole lot. If that doesn't improve his already deadly shot I'm not sure what will. He is going to start out the season as a spot up shooter, then as he gets into playing shape you will see him attacking the rim more and going after rebounds, steals, and blocks. Martel is way more of a consistant contributor than Outlaw because Martel utilizes more than one dimension of his game where as Outlaw doesn't. Don't get me wrong, I like Outlaw, but to bring poor comparrisons like that is rediculous.
    I am a fan of Good basketball, great fans and Rip City!
  1. Tobyus Sanchezo
    Tobyus Sanchezo
    Posts: 1669

    Posted 07/15/2009 9:39 PM

    I dunno man, I hadn't really noticed much of a difference between Webster or Outlaw's game. They both can get hot from the outside. Martell's a little more stout, so he can actually back down and score in the low post. But Outlaw has tremendous length and athleticism, so he can just straight fly over fools. Other then that, their stat lines are about the same, and so's there cruddy help defense (remnants of playing alongside Zebo).
    Hey, after watching Dante Cunningham in Vegas tonight, I'm hoping that Villanova can create a new angle, in the waterfall of quality small forwards on the Blazers.
    I am a fan of multiple All-Stars on the Blazers roster this season!
  1. GMan83201
    GMan83201
    Posts: 2

    Posted 07/16/2009 12:33 PM

    Millsap is a tremendous rebounder and a quality defensive PF.  He in fact is more of a rebounder than a scorer.  I really think you are mistaking him fro someone else.
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